Discussion:
Tapeless zVSE System
(too old to reply)
Kevin Corkery
2008-03-03 17:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Anyone out there using a completely "tapeless" system? What I mean by this is a zSeries (or maybe even a Flex system) with VSE native where the only tape support is something that would let you access an AWSTAPE formatted tape, especially a zVSE distribution file. This would mean that the AWSTAPE file would need to reside (utilitmately after copying from DVD) on a device attached to the zSeries that appears to be an IPLable tape drive. I can think of a Flex-CUB, a Bus-Tech MAS, and a Universal Software VTA as providing this capability. I know that the VTAPE functionality is available after TCP/IP comes up on the host, but you need to hatch the eqq before the chicken so to speak. We are considering this for our new environment. The cost of the tape drives, the media involved, and managing the media offsite is starting to make this look like a real cost effective way to go. Hey, even if you're not doing this I would appreciate any comments as to it's viability; I may ha!
ve miss
ed a "gotcha". Thanks.

--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey
Dennis McLoud
2008-03-03 17:43:47 UTC
Permalink
We are doing this with Universal's VTA. We have not written a real 3490 tape
in over 2 years. We moved the tape drive out of the computer room last
December since it was only being used to hold down floor tiles. Now we are
trying to figure out how to erase or destroy our old tapes. I described our
process a few months ago. It's in the archives so I won't repeat it.

Dennis McLoud
Systronics, Inc.
913-829-9229


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vse-***@Lehigh.EDU [mailto:owner-vse-***@Lehigh.EDU] On Behalf Of
Kevin Corkery
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:11
To: VSE Discussion List
Subject: Tapeless zVSE System

Anyone out there using a completely "tapeless" system? What I mean by this
is a zSeries (or maybe even a Flex system) with VSE native where the only
tape support is something that would let you access an AWSTAPE formatted
tape, especially a zVSE distribution file. This would mean that the AWSTAPE
file would need to reside (utilitmately after copying from DVD) on a device
attached to the zSeries that appears to be an IPLable tape drive. I can
think of a Flex-CUB, a Bus-Tech MAS, and a Universal Software VTA as
providing this capability. I know that the VTAPE functionality is available
after TCP/IP comes up on the host, but you need to hatch the eqq before the
chicken so to speak. We are considering this for our new environment. The
cost of the tape drives, the media involved, and managing the media offsite
is starting to make this look like a real cost effective way to go. Hey,
even if you're not doing this I would appreciate any comments as to it's
viability; I may ha!
ve miss
ed a "gotcha". Thanks.

--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey
Kevin Corkery
2008-03-03 18:08:02 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Billy. I lokked at this and it appears to be a little too "enterprise level" for what we can get away with here. We need to exploit things that the "open systems" group would not identify as mainframe specific. In any case, you mentioned the use of a real tape for installs; my goal is to do a bare iron install without any real tape. I would need to access the AWSTAPE file directly for the standalone IPL.

--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey

-------------- Original message ----------------------
Kevin,
We use a product from SecureAgent call SDS (Secure Data Solution), a Virtual
Tape Server. It is ESCON or FICON connected and appears to the mainframe as a
3490 type device. It has a local Data Storage and when the 'tape file' is
created it copies the file to the remote Data Storage. The local Data Storage is
located in our computer room and the remote Data Storage is located offsite.
SecureAgent has an agreement with Sungard and our goal for DR is to either have
the remote Data Storage located in our DR site or ship the Remote device to our
DR site. It also does encryption and compression. It cut way back on our backup
window, from 2 -3 hours to 40 minutes. We're not all the way off the real tapes
yet, but we're working on it. It has a Dynam/T interface that is a long running
job running on z/VSE that monitors the mount messages for an OwnerID that is
managed by the SA SDS. It also has a WinDoze based interface that allows us to
control/monitor the devices. IE: Define Volsers, manually mount tapes, review
logs, etc. All in all we're very happy with it. Our operators really like it. We
cut back on our offsite tape storage from 4 boxes to none :)
For those times when a real tape is needed, like a VSE Install, we'll copy the
AWS file to the SA SDS using DITTO with a VTAPE file as input.
SecureAgent will be at WAVV and I'm going to do a short presentation on our
implementation during their vendor session.
Billy
Billy R. Bingham
2008-03-03 19:11:58 UTC
Permalink
When I said 'real tape' I meant a tape file that resides on the SA SDS. It would be accessed like a tape, IPLed, etc, but would be a virtual tape.


Billy
Post by Kevin Corkery
Thanks Billy. I lokked at this and it appears to be a little too "enterprise level" for what we can get away with here. We need to exploit things that the "open systems" group would not identify as mainframe specific. In any case, you mentioned the use of a real tape for installs; my goal is to do a bare iron install without any real tape. I would need to access the AWSTAPE file directly for the standalone IPL.
--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey
-------------- Original message ----------------------
Kevin,
We use a product from SecureAgent call SDS (Secure Data Solution), a Virtual
Tape Server. It is ESCON or FICON connected and appears to the mainframe as a
3490 type device. It has a local Data Storage and when the 'tape file' is
created it copies the file to the remote Data Storage. The local Data Storage is
located in our computer room and the remote Data Storage is located offsite.
SecureAgent has an agreement with Sungard and our goal for DR is to either have
the remote Data Storage located in our DR site or ship the Remote device to our
DR site. It also does encryption and compression. It cut way back on our backup
window, from 2 -3 hours to 40 minutes. We're not all the way off the real tapes
yet, but we're working on it. It has a Dynam/T interface that is a long running
job running on z/VSE that monitors the mount messages for an OwnerID that is
managed by the SA SDS. It also has a WinDoze based interface that allows us to
control/monitor the devices. IE: Define Volsers, manually mount tapes, review
logs, etc. All in all we're very happy with it. Our operators really like it. We
cut back on our offsite tape storage from 4 boxes to none :)
For those times when a real tape is needed, like a VSE Install, we'll copy the
AWS file to the SA SDS using DITTO with a VTAPE file as input.
SecureAgent will be at WAVV and I'm going to do a short presentation on our
implementation during their vendor session.
Billy
Kevin Corkery
2008-03-03 18:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, this is exactly what I'm thinking about. I will search the archives for your discussion.

--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey

-------------- Original message ----------------------
Post by Dennis McLoud
We are doing this with Universal's VTA. We have not written a real 3490 tape
in over 2 years. We moved the tape drive out of the computer room last
December since it was only being used to hold down floor tiles. Now we are
trying to figure out how to erase or destroy our old tapes. I described our
process a few months ago. It's in the archives so I won't repeat it.
Dennis McLoud
Systronics, Inc.
913-829-9229
Deetjen, Jean-Max
2008-03-03 18:50:16 UTC
Permalink
Hey Kevin,

At the college we run a tapeless systems using the Universal tape
appliance (VTA).

Max

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vse-***@Lehigh.EDU [mailto:owner-vse-***@Lehigh.EDU] On Behalf
Of Kevin Corkery
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 12:11 PM
To: VSE Discussion List
Subject: Tapeless zVSE System

Anyone out there using a completely "tapeless" system? What I mean by
this is a zSeries (or maybe even a Flex system) with VSE native where
the only tape support is something that would let you access an AWSTAPE
formatted tape, especially a zVSE distribution file. This would mean
that the AWSTAPE file would need to reside (utilitmately after copying
from DVD) on a device attached to the zSeries that appears to be an
IPLable tape drive. I can think of a Flex-CUB, a Bus-Tech MAS, and a
Universal Software VTA as providing this capability. I know that the
VTAPE functionality is available after TCP/IP comes up on the host, but
you need to hatch the eqq before the chicken so to speak. We are
considering this for our new environment. The cost of the tape drives,
the media involved, and managing the media offsite is starting to make
this look like a real cost effective way to go. Hey, even if you're not
doing this I would appreciate any comments as to it's viability; I may
ha!
ve miss
ed a "gotcha". Thanks.

--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey
Kevin Corkery
2008-03-03 19:43:09 UTC
Permalink
I was aware that the college had one, I just wasn't sure it was a completely tapeless situation. I wanted to make sure that my assumption of using the CD-ROM distributed AWSTAPE format files would work on an initial install. Just needed some ammo before discussing it with the business partner. Thanks.

--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey

-------------- Original message ----------------------
Post by Deetjen, Jean-Max
Hey Kevin,
At the college we run a tapeless systems using the Universal tape
appliance (VTA).
Max
-----Original Message-----
Of Kevin Corkery
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 12:11 PM
To: VSE Discussion List
Subject: Tapeless zVSE System
Anyone out there using a completely "tapeless" system? What I mean by
this is a zSeries (or maybe even a Flex system) with VSE native where
the only tape support is something that would let you access an AWSTAPE
formatted tape, especially a zVSE distribution file. This would mean
that the AWSTAPE file would need to reside (utilitmately after copying
from DVD) on a device attached to the zSeries that appears to be an
IPLable tape drive. I can think of a Flex-CUB, a Bus-Tech MAS, and a
Universal Software VTA as providing this capability. I know that the
VTAPE functionality is available after TCP/IP comes up on the host, but
you need to hatch the eqq before the chicken so to speak. We are
considering this for our new environment. The cost of the tape drives,
the media involved, and managing the media offsite is starting to make
this look like a real cost effective way to go. Hey, even if you're not
doing this I would appreciate any comments as to it's viability; I may
ha!
ve miss
ed a "gotcha". Thanks.
--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey
R***@aol.com
2008-03-03 22:56:33 UTC
Permalink
Kevin,


We've had a Bus-Tech MAS, now called MDL, installed for about 3 years now.
With a shaky start and a few burps now and again it's been working fine. The
burps are far, far less than data checks, tape handling, physical offsite
storage,the rotation of physical volumes for DR, etc. (I've gone on and on about
this in the past-see archives).

I've been installing z/VSE using AWS formatted tapes, including PTF's, since
before installing the MAS. All z/VSE installations are done under Hercules,
which already emulates AWS formatted tapes, including some others, but NOT
FAKE tape.

I order z/VSE thru ShopZ and request Internet delivery. I receive everything
in AWS format. I download them and simply point Herc to them using Herc's
DEVINIT cuu path_name command. This includes the ability to IPL from these
files as well. After I get the system setup I do a FCOPY of DOSRES and SYSWK1, no
VTAPE needs to be used on Herc. You can but using VTAPE is slower than
Herc's native emulation. I then either FCOPY the AWS files, for DOSRES and SYSWK1,
to a external hard drive to be reconnected to my laptop at work and
subsequently VTAPE'd using FCOPY RESTORE VOLUME, or FTP them to my laptop to
eventually use them similar to the previous method (I seldom use this method because
it's too slow) or use z/VSE VTAPE to restore them directly from my desktop to
different cuu's to a target LPAR on a REAL machine. I then IPL from these
volumes and viola, I've got a new system up and running.

You just have to remember that whenever you are ordering new releases of
z/VSE and/or PTF's you ask that they be delivered ELECTRONICALLY.

A couple weekends ago Kroger began replication of AWS images to a new
datacenter which houses our z/OS Z9's 35 miles away. The tape data from the z/OS
z9's is replicated in the opposite direction to the old datacenter. REAL tape
usage, for z/OS, was whittled down to practically nothing (i.e. converted to
using MDL a couple of months in advance of switching to the new datacenter).
Presently both z/VSE and z/OS are creating REAL PHYSICAL TAPES for DR. In
order to NOT do this Kroger needs to replicate tape images from both OS's to a
3rd site and purchase an additional MDL, in case a regional disaster renders
both sites inoperative. Another option, with the MDL which I have purposed, is
to copy ALL AWS datasets needed for DR to a 500G (or whatever size) hard
drive (automated scripts would need to be created on z/VSE and then sent to the
MDL to copy the current DR datasets to the external hard drive). Multiple
external hard drives would be rotated and taken to offsite storage for DR. This
option still requires an MDL at a 3rd facility. We could then eliminate ALL
our use of physical tapes, but I just can't get them to purchase the additional
MDL. Uusing an external hard drive eliminates the high cost of additional
backend storage.

The ONLY gotcha you may run into is IF you are currently sending physical
tapes to 3rd party/ies. You will have to find out if they can handle AWS
formatted files which you can FTP to them (note that z/OS cannot handle such files
as it doesn't have an equivalent of z/VSE's VTAPE). With the MDL you can
create regular flat files and FTP them but a JCL change will have to be made,
assuming you still need to create a AWS formatted file. If not simply FTP a flat
file to them in the first place. They'll have to get it to their mainframe or
whatever on their own.

The MDL is cheap compared to the backend storage devices. Bus-Tech partners
with EMC but you don't have to use EMC.

If you don't already have a z/VSE tape manager I'd go very, very slow as I
can't imagine managing all of this without one. EPIC and DYNAM do this
management for you (i.e. scratching of the AWS files when volumes are scratched on
z/VSE, etc.). Bus-Tech also supplies BTICMD which is a program that allows you
to issue commands to the MDL which avoids from having to GET TO the MDL and
issue such commands from there.

Other things you MAY want to consider. I'm not going into too much detail
here so if you want to know more, call me.

No one will be able to create a dataset on a physical tape and keep that
physical tape on/at their desk.

The use of unlabelled tapes should be avoided. Continued accidental or
purposely writing such tapes will negate the effectiveness of the MDL or VTA or
whatever.

You may want to consider writing a SYCN CHECK program, a counter part wrote
one in REXX, to ensure that your volumes in your tape manager and the backend
storage volsers are BOTH in SYNC with each other (i.e. your tape manager
lists a volser as being scratched but your backend storage says it's NOT a
scratch, or visa-versa).

And finally, keep in mind that EVERYTHING you have will be on the backend
storage device/s including archived data. This will GROW your requirements for
the size of the backend storage. Also, if the site where the backend storage
device/s reside is destroyed and you weren't replicating it, it will be lost
and probably gone forever.

All in all it's worked out quite well for us.


513-319-6199



**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
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Kevin Corkery
2008-03-04 00:07:24 UTC
Permalink
Bob ...

Thanks for the detailed reply. We are looking at a Universal Software VTA since it's more of a "Windoze Friendly" solution which sits well with the corporate mother ship. We will make the device accessible via our enterprise backup system to create off-site physical storage images. We are also investigating the possible use of network connected backup. This would be used to quickly place offsite a set of backups directly from the VTA after our daily zVSE backups. The DR considerations here are to have something offsite that we could ultimately use. The corporate risk managers feel that a 3-5 day restoration of operations is an acceptable risk; theory is we would always be able to acquire enogh of our infrastructure to resume operations in a reasonable period of time; insurance money greases a lot of wheels :-)

The main concern was the ability to import the AWSTAPE format media to a virtual tape environment. If we were to receive the VSE distribution on CD (or internat for that matter) the data is in AWSTAPE format. The VTA is capable of importing these files to datastore or access it directly from a CD on the same unit. It would then appear as any mounted tape on a 3490E device to the mainframe. From talking to the folks at BusTech they indicated that they would be able to do the same thing although their locally created AWSTAPE is supposedly a little different from IBMs format; they indicated that there was some "indexing" scheme in the first few physical block of the tape. In any case, I should be able to IPL from the AWSTAPE file as if it were a real tape on the end of the ESCON channel. The biggest hurdle may be to get a buy in from the business partner selling us the z9.

So, instead of stinkin' VM, you're a closet Herc user. I see where you can get a pretty good head start in installing a new zVSE. I'm thinking as part of the z9 installation, since LPAR is by default, to have the luxury of creating a small sandbox LPAR for installing new releases and such. I've never had them in the past but I've had a few hair-raising RSL applications in the recent past. There's a lot of testing needs to be done to make the plug pulling decisions by Sunday afternoon. I do have the luxury of 3 out of 4 weekends being idle. Of course. LPARs need some real resources to support and there may not be enoough to really go around. This is a minimal installation with a 4-5 year life expectancy until the "Windows platform" solution will be available from the home office, you get the picture :-).

Anyway, I appreciate your sharing of your experiences.

--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey
R***@aol.com
2008-03-04 13:20:48 UTC
Permalink
Kevin: See below.

Thanks for the detailed reply. We are looking at a Universal Software VTA
since it's more of a "Windoze Friendly" solution which sits well with the
corporate mother ship. We will make the device accessible via our enterprise
backup system to create off-site physical storage images. We are also
investigating the possible use of network connected backup. This would be used to
quickly place offsite a set of backups directly from the VTA after our daily
zVSE backups. The DR considerations here are to have something offsite that we
could ultimately use. The corporate risk managers feel that a 3-5 day
restoration of operations is an acceptable risk; theory is we would always be able
to acquire enogh of our infrastructure to resume operations in a reasonable
period of time; insurance money greases a lot of wheels :-)
Admittedly I would've preferred that Bus-Tech used Windows. While I haven't
completely mastered Linux (their software runs under Linux), I've learned
quite a bit about a lot of its commands.



The main concern was the ability to import the AWSTAPE format media to a
virtual tape environment. If we were to receive the VSE distribution on CD (or
internat for that matter) the data is in AWSTAPE format. The VTA is capable
of importing these files to datastore or access it directly from a CD on the
same unit. It would then appear as any mounted tape on a 3490E device to the
mainframe. From talking to the folks at BusTech they indicated that they
would be able to do the same thing although their locally created AWSTAPE is
supposedly a little different from IBMs format; they indicated that there was
some "indexing" scheme in the first few physical block of the tape. In any
case, I should be able to IPL from the AWSTAPE file as if it were a real tape
on the end of the ESCON channel. The biggest hurdle may be to get a buy in
from the business partner selling us the z9.
The Bus-Tech does write an INDEX but I was told it's placed at the back of
the file. It's used to quickly locate files when there are multi-files on a
volume, thus avoiding READ FROM THE FRONT OF THE TAPE UNTIL THE FILE IS FOUND.
The need to write multi files on a single volume is obviated, IMHO.

I've FTP'd their files to my PC and used them using z/VSE VTAPE without any
problems.

There are at least three (3) utilities out there you can run on your PC to
view AWS formatted files (kinda like DITTO). I prefer the one written by David
Trout (aka FISH). Whenever I write an AWS file using z/VSE VTAPE I always
use this utility to make sure it can be read (I've had cases where I VTAPE'd
something and the file was corrupted), thus using the utility lets me know if
it's ok.



So, instead of stinkin' VM, you're a closet Herc user. I see where you can
get a pretty good head start in installing a new zVSE. I'm thinking as part
of the z9 installation, since LPAR is by default, to have the luxury of
creating a small sandbox LPAR for installing new releases and such. I've never
had them in the past but I've had a few hair-raising RSL applications in the
recent past. There's a lot of testing needs to be done to make the plug
pulling decisions by Sunday afternoon. I do have the luxury of 3 out of 4
weekends being idle. Of course. LPARs need some real resources to support and there
may not be enoough to really go around. This is a minimal installation with
a 4-5 year life expectancy until the "Windows platform" solution will be
available from the home office, you get the picture :-).
I don't know what z9 your looking at but, as I recall, they come with 8G
REAL storage, at a mininum. We have 8G real with 9 LPAR's and about 1200 dasd
cuu's in our IOCP and we really don't have REAL storage issues, although I
would've preferred at least 16G real.

I don't keep anything, of IBM's, anywhere, except in IJSYSRS.SYSLIB. We
don't put anything in PRD2.CONFIG or VSESPUC, including the CSD as we use our
own, or POWER (i.e. IJQFILE and IJDFILE). When migrating to a new z/VSE release
I create a IJSYSRS.MIGR, put the NEW proc's and anything else we use, from
IJSYSRS.SYSLIB, into it. I IPL from the old DOSRES and copy all the proc's,
etc. from IJSYSRS.MIGR to IJSYSRS.SYSLIB to the new DOSRES, copy a new CSD,
connect the VSAM USER catalogs, and do a few other things and IPL from the new
DOSRES. Thus a migration takes less than 2 hours. If there's a problem I simply
IPL from the old DOSRES.

Having a sandbox LPAR is great, although having a Herc sandbox is even
better. Copying DOSRES and SYSWK1, under Herc, before applying a PTF takes only 10
SECONDs. Lets see you do that with that stinkin' VM or native z/VSE. If a
problem occurs just delete the 2 volumes and rename the copied volumes back to
their original names and your back to where you were BEFORE applying anything.

Assuming your not changing the version|release of your current operating
system I think your making too big a deal out of this. It's really a PUSH|PULL
situation when going from one processor to another although if coming from a
FLEX or MP3000 with the later having integrated DASD it's a bit more involved.
Otherwise if your have sufficient dasd and you can connect both processors
to it you can do a LOT of work ahead of time.



Anyway, I appreciate your sharing of your experiences.






**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
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Kevin Corkery
2008-03-04 14:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Actually, regardless of how we go with the tapes we will be going to a system that will not support any of our current media. I will need to use some sort of VTAPE support to physically migrate the data to the new system. I've lived without a sandbox for quite some time but as I said we had a few real nasty suprises with recent RSL levels. I figured a real small sandbox system could be used to do the testing ahead of time. I suspect that ultimately, a well defined test plan may make a lot of sense for each maintenance cycle. Even with a small test system I'd need to have this in any case. Development here has always been on the production system and switching that concept at this point doesn't make a lot of sense although these days there's that ever present audit note that the environments should be seperate :-)
--
Kevin Corkery
Independent Consultant
Voorhees, New Jersey

-------------- Original message ----------------------
Post by R***@aol.com
Assuming your not changing the version|release of your current operating
system I think your making too big a deal out of this. It's really a PUSH|PULL
situation when going from one processor to another although if coming from a
FLEX or MP3000 with the later having integrated DASD it's a bit more involved.
Otherwise if your have sufficient dasd and you can connect both processors
to it you can do a LOT of work ahead of time.
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